I'll be complaining for sure. I can also setup private hosting of the repo if that helps (or you could use bit bucket etc that have a free but private option)

Can't believe they want this shutdown what backward thinking. Little annoyed literally just bought an appliance after checking if there was a home assistant plugin for it this weekend and now its been shutdown.
These companies need to re-think their strategy. What is the difference if you are accessing it from you phone or another device, just doesn't make sense.

Just point us where to fill a little complain. What the hell is "causing significant economic harm" ? Phone app is hilarious, almost anytime i use it it ask for credentials again and again ... This better be joke ;)

Contact form here though not for complaints

https://www.hoover-home.com/en_GB/contact-form/

I also bought two Haier appliances because of their ability to connect to home assistant. I was looking at their dishwashers to add a third and even recommend them to friends. They are shooting themselves in the foot massively - the DIY smart home market is huge.

I saw that the project is to be shut down, is that purely on the basis of Haier's message or has Home Assistant / Github insisted on it? Talk of "attorneys / legal action" will only work if you are in the same jurisdiction, it seems like a scare tactic and I agree with OP - as Haier customers we should make some noise and share the responsibility for the integration however we can to keep it going.

imagine if the repository was archived and as a user base, we were to all fork the project individually in order to continue using it, there'd be multiple copies of the code, managed by users all over the world all connecting into Haier's systems. Haier aren't going to take every one of us to court, irrespective of the legal arguments, taking your loyal customers to court is not a good look for any company and a sure fire way to lose them. If the issue is they have any technical concerns about the integration they could raise them and they can be fixed. Just shows they don't understand the potential of the DIY smart home market.

Happy to help share the burden however would help.

Guess you can also send email complaints here. This is specific to the app team I think:

support.hon@haier-europe.com

if I dont update will the addon still continue to work ?

if I dont update will the addon still continue to work ?

you can update, addon still working. the author must remove the code from the Internet.

Just one thing there, while Haier should if anything be offering to purchase the addon (concept or code) and not forcing it to go offline it is possible that the addon does incur economic damage to Haier, it depends on how it works, but I think the most likely 'reason' they can give for this is the addon triggering a constant stream of api calls throughout the day whereas you would only otherwise use their shitty app for a very short period, so in theory they can probably claim correctly that the addon costs them financially (I would however think a great deal given it is only HA users). While the addon will keep working when taken down, it would then probably be a simple matter to either stop it working by changing the api or it's authentication but it will take them a while to do that I hope since they would need to push out mobile app changes first.

I would add that for the HA integration is a must, no more Haier devices for me given this.

We need to investigate further how to control Haier devices locally.

We need to investigate further how to control Haier devices locally.

I am also looking for such a possibility.
I found the project https://community.home-assistant.io/t/esp-haier-haier-air-conditioner-esp-home-wemos-d1-mini/127880 although, I have the impression that there are two versions, Haier and Haier Europe which is why, among other things, my air conditioning does not work.

Many thanks for all the support. We have put a lot of work into this integration and I am very disappointed in Haier. This integration brings Haier added value free of charge and I find it appalling how it is being handled.
I will not take the project down immediately and simply let Haier win. Using the api should not be illegal. If the significant economic damage is caused by us making too many requests with the integration, we can talk about it and slow it down.
Luckily I'm insured. I've contacted my legal expenses insurance and they're covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.

We need to investigate further how to control Haier devices locally.

Definitely.

Perhaps by redirecting the cloud server dns on our home networks and then run a local server to Imitate the cloud.

I have a feeling my washer and dryer are esp32 based. Despite their size they may have the brains of a lightbulb! I will do some digging. If they are esp32 based we may not need to reinvent the wheel for custom firmware as many will have gone that way before us

I have sent a complaint to Haier customer support via email and the app tonight. Will try twitter next. And then I have some 1* amszon/trustpilot/etc reviews to write, but will see if they respond first.

support.hon@haier-europe.com

I have wrote.
We all need to wrote, and say that What they need to do is provide an official integration with Home Assistant yourselves and not wait for third parties to develop them

I think they have written to scare, they are probably trying to monopolize the market. Just like they forced Apple to use USB-C to allow compatibility, this is something similar. They cannot prohibit something that is yours from communicating with your home automation, but they are using fear tactics

This makes no sense, i will not buy any more haier products, what's the point of getting an IoT thing if i can't integrate it into home assistant then?

Not sure how a violation of terms of service is relevant to you, the plugin author, unless you're violating those terms yourself or proxying requests for others. Glad to hear you have insurance.

I think they have written to scare, they are probably trying to monopolize the market. Just like they forced Apple to use USB-C to allow compatibility, this is something similar. They cannot prohibit something that is yours from communicating with your home automation, but they are using fear tactics

But they can demand that an unofficial app/script doesn't access their api.

I don't agree with what they are doing but they are perfectly within their rights to send a c&d.

retweet and telle everybody you know to retweet
https://twitter.com/hectormjuste/status/1747183924722253955

But they can demand that an unofficial
app/script doesn't access their api.

I'm not totally agree with that.
We are accessing the API with our users and passwords to our data about our appliances.
APIs are used without any type of brute force.
We are simply using what they publicy left available.
Don't want people use API? Lock it.
You want a restricted usage? Make it available through a more clear API access with an api key, with limits to avoid servers overload.. And make all happy.
Probably is not clear to Haier how much this integration helped to sell appliances..

Haier don't have a legal leg to stand on in Europe (Article 6 of the EU software directive applies) or the DMCA (Interoperability work is protected)

APIs are not private and Haier are attempting a "prior restraint on trade" (words which will make most regulators prick up their ears and take interest) by way of enforcing vendor lockin

I have flagged this to some tech journalists and suggested they get comment from regulators/EFF

Someone needs to flag this to German regulators - they take this kind of behaviour extremely seriously and will quite happily drag Haier over the coals (I'm outside the EU thanks to Brexit, so can't do it)

Haier have probably just kicked a hornets' nest and are about to reap the consequences

Just sent this to support.hon@haier-europe.com

Dear Haier-Team,

I have seen your Haier Europe Security and Governance Department have threaten open source developer Andre0512 to shut down two github projects with legal actions.
They stated Haier is suffering significant economic harm form providing integration of Haier products to home-assistant.
I don´t see where economic harm could occur from providing good integrations in widely used home automation software.

Having good integration in home-assistant is a competitive advantage nowadays. So Haier has a economic advantage from these projects.

I personally, and I think any other home-assistant user, chose the manufacturer with the possibility of integration into their home automation.

Please reconsider your actions against open source developers.
Manufacturers prohibiting open source integration will definitely land on my "no buy" list.

Also sent an email based of @subw0ofer

Dear Haier-Team,

I have seen your Haier Europe Security and Governance Department have threaten open source developer Andre0512 to shut down two github projects with legal actions.
They stated Haier is suffering significant economic harm form providing integration of Haier products to home-assistant.
I don't see where economic harm could occur from providing good integrations in widely used home automation software.

Having a good integration with home-assistant is a competitive advantage. So Haier has a economic advantage from these projects.
I for once wouldn't buy Haier if not for an existing API integration with my existing home automation solution. And no, hOn is not an option.
If not for this integration I would have bought Samsung, LG or Mitsubishi.

Personally, and I think any other home-assistant users, chose the manufacturer with the possibility of integration into their home automation.

Please reconsider your actions against open source developers.
Manufacturers prohibiting open source integration will definitely land on my "no buy" list.
Manufacturers without these integrations will land on my "not recommended" list for any contacts I have.

Best regards

I've send this mail to Hayer.

Dear Haier Europe Security and Governance Department,

I am writing to express my disappointment and concern regarding the recent communication I read on Github, stating that Haier Europe wishes to have the GitHub project developed by the open-source developer Andre0512 closed.

Firstly, I want to emphasize that I consciously chose Haier as my preferred air conditioning brand because of its compatibility with the open-source project created by Andre0512. The integration with Home Assistant, facilitated by Andre0512's work (https://github.com/Andre0512/hon and https://github.com/Andre0512/pyhOn), played a pivotal role in my decision to opt for Haier products.

Understanding that Haier prioritizes the protection of its intellectual property, I would like to express my sincere regret if the company perceives the mentioned integration as a violation of terms of service. However, it is important to note that the project in question has significantly contributed to enhancing the user experience and functionality of Haier products within the context of home automation.

It is with great disappointment that I learned about Haier's request to close down this open-source project. As a loyal customer who was planning to purchase two additional Haier air conditioners, I am now reconsidering my decision due to the potential discontinuation of support for the Home Assistant integration.

I understand the importance of protecting intellectual property, but I believe there might be alternative solutions or compromises that can be explored. I kindly urge Haier to reconsider the decision to close down the project and to explore an amicable resolution that would not only protect the company's interests but also preserve the positive experiences of customers like myself who appreciate the added value provided by the open-source community.

If Haier decides to proceed with the closure of the project, it is with regret that I may need to explore other air conditioning brands that offer compatibility with my home automation system. This decision would not be taken lightly, as I have been satisfied with Haier's products and services.

I sincerely hope that Haier Europe will consider the impact on loyal customers like myself and explore alternatives that can maintain a positive relationship between the company and the open-source community.

Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best regards,

Someone needs to flag this to German regulators - they take this kind of behaviour extremely seriously and will quite happily drag Haier over the coals (I'm outside the EU thanks to Brexit, so can't do it)

That sounds like another good option! Do you know who i can contact in Germany?

Thank you for all your support! Btw, this was the e-mail address that contacted me: cybergovernance@haier-europe.com

Thank you for all your support! Btw, this was the e-mail address that contacted me: cybergovernance@haier-europe.com

Thanks, forwarded the mail to that adress.

I stopped following about 2 or 3 weeks ago because it was 'too much input'...

What did it finally result in? @Andre0512 is there any 'announcement' about?

thanks & gereetings!
Phil

ok, done - I found the 'timeline'

thank you!

Well done @Andre0512!!!!

PS: If anyone here is making a HomeBridge integration LMK.

It seems like another integration has become victim of its success. Though the company just decided to not say anything and drastically rate limit the end point.

Sorry guys, Is this shutting down or not, I've placed an order on AO.com yesterday, after finding the integration.

Should reject the delivery tomorrow?

NOT shutting down. only decreased polling to every 60 seconds.

NOT shutting down. only decreased polling to every 60 seconds.

And should/will eventually be push-based so that the state updates instantly without having to poll.

Out of curiosity, has there been any news? I see nothing new in the timeline.

I was wondering -as others have suggested- if there is any option that Haier is releasing docs on how to use the MQTT connection. It would be perfect for them If they do not want to get a high load on their servers and for us means local control of devices. It's a win-win.

probably in case of local access you wouldn't be interested in sharing your data with Haier anymore and you know - nowadays data are as valuable as gold... ;-)

nevertheless local access is the highly preferable way to connect to your devices and somebody might evaluate some way to. we are doing this with Viessmann devices https://github.com/open3e/open3e and we got quite far. Viessmann's E3 generation offers a CAN interface (meant for Viessmann internal use) where you can hook on to. The older generations had Optolink and this got disclosed, too. I don't know about Haier devices. For sure there is some lokal communication - the first question is how to connect to it and the second is to 'spy out' the protocol... some reverse engineering required but quite nothing is impossible

@Andre0512 I see that there are changes in the software and the use of push API - I am very happy about it.
However, what about implementing local access? Is Haier open to this?

@Kfrard

However, what about implementing local access? Is Haier open to this?

They're not going to update existing devices in the field to support that. The cost/risk does not make sense for the addressable market would work care.

At best they'd do future devices, and we should hope that they implement matter 1.2 which supports washing machines.

is there ANY way to get a communication connection locally?

We created a solution to connect to Viessmann E3/"One Base" devices locally. https://github.com/open3e/open3e We utilized the CAN Bus meant for 'internal' communication between Viessmann devices. The same protocol (UDS on ISO TP) is working in the Access Point mode of the WLAN interface (meant for startup setup after installation). On the old series there was an infra-red interface where it was possible to hook on to (OptoLink...).

If there is anything like this with Haier devices, it might get utilized. If nothing else works, it might be possible to 'hack' the encrytion used in W/LAN communication with the Haier Server and to connect this way. We found some keys and encryption mechanisms when taking deeper looks at Viessmann sources (apk's) we managed to decompile...

@Kfrard

However, what about implementing local access? Is Haier open to this?

They're not going to update existing devices in the field to support that. The cost/risk does not make sense for the addressable market would work care.

At best they'd do future devices, and we should hope that they implement matter 1.2 which supports washing machines.

But why? Recently, a software update module appeared in the hOn application, and the boards in the devices are ESP32, so it is technically possible.

But why? Recently, a software update module appeared in the hOn application, and the boards in the devices are ESP32, so it is technically possible.

Technically possible != profitable business

But why? Recently, a software update module appeared in the hOn application, and the boards in the devices are ESP32, so it is technically possible.

Technically possible != profitable business

Yeah every update you do has development cost, testing cost, a chance of failures and support calls.

Not enough people remotely care about that to overcome those hurdles.

As I said maybe they'll support matter 1.2 in new things (that have certificates provisioned) but yeah it's just not worth the in-place updates.

How much spare ram/juice do the esp boards have for new things? I doubt they were over-provisioned.

So yeah. Technically they might be able to. But realistically they are not going to.

Regarding "local access", FYI, I got an email from support because my oven did not connect properly -sometimes disconnected-, and they told me to review these ports

- check that the following ports on the appliance IP are open and unblocked: 80 (http), 443 (https), 8883 (mqtt)

So that means MQTT is there...

But why? Recently, a software update module appeared in the hOn application, and the boards in the devices are ESP32, so it is technically possible.

Technically possible != profitable business

Yeah every update you do has development cost, testing cost, a chance of failures and support calls.

Not enough people remotely care about that to overcome those hurdles.

As I said maybe they'll support matter 1.2 in new things (that have certificates provisioned) but yeah it's just not worth the in-place updates.

How much spare ram/juice do the esp boards have for new things? I doubt they were over-provisioned.

So yeah. Technically they might be able to. But realistically they are not going to.

Of course, you are right, although I have little hope that Andre will be able to convince them of this possibility. This also brings some savings on AWS.

Most of their aws costs are baked in, and a lot of it likely avoided by push notifications.

They reason why they noticed the API cost (guessing) is that nobody was meant to call it nearly as much as the plugin was

The majority of the apps were just sent push notifications...

So actually the AWS costs aren't really an issue for what they get from it.

(I do hope they manage to engage and enable the push stuff for this though, I'm allergic to polling)

Most of their aws costs are baked in, and a lot of it likely avoided by push notifications.

They reason why they noticed the API cost (guessing) is that nobody was meant to call it nearly as much as the plugin was

The majority of the apps were just sent push notifications...

So actually the AWS costs aren't really an issue for what they get from it.

(I do hope they manage to engage and enable the push stuff for this though, I'm allergic to polling)

It's already working :)
There have already been several pre-releases. Check Releases.
https://github.com/Andre0512/hon/releases

@Kfrard

However, what about implementing local access? Is Haier open to this?

They're not going to update existing devices in the field to support that. The cost/risk does not make sense for the addressable market would work care.

At best they'd do future devices, and we should hope that they implement matter 1.2 which supports washing machines.

Sure, they are not likely to do that but at almost no cost, they can release details of the serial protocol between the wireless module and the mainboard so that we can do it ourselves.

@pabloromeu

- check that the following ports on the appliance IP are open and unblocked: 80 (http), 443 (https), 8883 (mqtt)

So that means MQTT is there...

did anybody check what data are there on MQTT and what might probably get controlled?!

did anybody check what data are there on MQTT and what might probably get controlled?!

I scanned mine a while back... nothing was open. I suspect that those are used outbound connecting to an AWS IOT MQTT server, not that the device itself has MQTT...

Dunno if they're connecting to SSL, if they are, you couldn't MITM the AWS hostname, if it's cleartext you could. (8883 is MQTT with SSL, so I think they've been sensible, sorry)

sad but good to know. thanks!

Dunno if they're connecting to SSL, if they are, you couldn't MITM the AWS hostname,

@thegareth Hostname is unencrypted in the SNI header, and you can also log all DNS queries to find the hostname.

@thegareth Hostname is unencrypted in the SNI header, and you can also log all DNS queries to find the hostname.

@Daniel15 yeah but you can't MITM the traffic. I wasn't saying you can't identify what the host is, apologies for my imprecision

@thegareth Hostname is unencrypted in the SNI header, and you can also log all DNS queries to find the hostname.

@Daniel15 yeah but you can't MITM the traffic. I wasn't saying you can't identify what the host is, apologies for my imprecision

It may still be possible to MITM the traffic if we can proxy the traffic and the device accepts the certificate we give it. Infact, wouldn't this have been how @Andre0512 done it in the first place to reverse engineer the https calls?